Garage Heroes (In Training)

Learning as we go. Come along with us and Enjoy the Ride!

NASA Great Lakes HPDE

GHIT 0129: Review of Our NASA Great Lakes HPDE at PittRace 2020

Jen, Vicki, and Bill review how the NASA Great Lakes HPDE event at PittRace went last weekend.  It is our team’s most anticipated HPDE event of the year and we were not disappointed.  Jennifer had our friend Chris as her instructor for the entire weekend and it showed as she progressed dramatically through the event in her ND Miata.  Vicki was also in HPDE 1 with another friend Jim as her student partner and also learned a ton, especially related to weight transfer in her NB Miata.  Bill was in the HPDE 2 group with both Chrissy and Jeff in the E36 race car and the stock Toyota 86 for this weekend.  With COVID 19 controls in place, there was no right seat driving instruction option, but NASA Great Lakes is continually learning, adapting, and responding with improvements that allow for a great amount of instruction for every student.

The Dominating with Dawson segment for this episode was initially in the area of coasting but we quickly wandered off into proper use and application of the throttle and aspects of controlled or over controlled track driving as opposed to pushing the limit and getting out of a comfort zone.

We hope you enjoy the episode!

Best regards,

Bill, Vicki, Jennifer, and Alan

Hosts of the Garage Heroes In Training podcast

and team members in the GHiT

Immature Endurance Racing Team

Highlights from the episode include:

1)  Our group of 7 brought 7 cars with us and Chris did his best Randy Pobst impersonation by driving almost every one of them during the weekend.

2)  Our teams struggle with car preparation and timing continued and we agree they must be addressed going forward.

3)  Jen, Vicki, and Bill all had goals going into the event, largely as we discussed after our last HPDE at GingerMan several weeks ago.

4)  Track learning/prep is very important to allow us to focus on our driving and not be distracted by “learning” the track at the same time for a new to us track

5)  We discuss the Saturday event and the Sunday event and how we did not prepare our meals as well as normally because we were way behind.  Sorry to our camp sharing friends.

6)  Vicki converts Jen’s RV sink into a disposal, for a short time.

7)  We compare and contrast HPDE 1 and HPDE 2 from this event.

8)  We individually cover the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly from the event

9)  Vicki “surveyed” the track extensively after turn 10 during her spin on Saturday.  Vicki did get to wave to Jennifer as she drove by a bit later.

10)  Chrissy, Vicki, and Chris encountered a handling issue on the NB Miata that was easily fixed by adjusting the adjustable shocks in the rear.  Who knew?  PS We are sorry for not listening to you earlier Chrissy.

11)  Jen solved her downshifting issue going into a turn that has plagued her to this point.  This was solved by slowing down by letting out the clutch, especially on track.  The best part is that Jennifer can also practice this on the street during her daily driving.

12)  Jennifer failed miserably by not getting her training partner over to our podcast.  Lol.

13)  We learned a lot from this event both about our prep and our driving.

14)  Bill admits we have too many cars and need to downsize significantly.

15)  Vicki summarizes our teams learning and progress to this point.

16)  Vicki’s “ah ha” moment included understanding weight transfer and improving her down shifting/sequencing going into turns.  Hopefully, this will help when she races a front wheel drive car again.

17)  Jennifer’s “ah ha” moment included shifting and especially downshifting and actually her hearing tires “sing” through the turns for the first time ever on track.

18)  Bill’s “ah ha” moments included 1) Bringing Lemons “skills” and HPDE “skills” together into a complimentary driving style utilizing both, 2) Comparison and E36 race car and the Toyota 86 street car, and 3) How significant the difference between sticker tires and scuffed tires.  We won’t be sending any of our newer drivers out on track with sticker tires ever.

19)  Vicki did not get out onto the track in the E36 BMW race car due to an accident in the prior session closing the track on Sunday prematurely.

20)  Some of the advantages of lead follow and some of the difficulties we saw.  NASA Great Lakes addressed these by actually switching the lead follow to what is essentially a switch of the cars into a “follow – Lead”

where the student is in front of the instructor at several points.

21)  Goals for our next HPDE event for each of us.

GHIT 0129: Review of Our NASA Great Lakes HPDE at PittRace 2020

GHIT 0123: Bill Griffin NASA Racing Driver and Jennifer’s HPDE Instructor from GingerMan

Bill Griffin

Bill Griffin has worked his way up to through the HPDE ranks to where he is a racing driver as well as an instructor, actually Jennifer’s instructor from GingerMan a few weeks back.  We talk with him about his history and progression from having zero experience in performance driving to where he competes regularly with NASA and Grid Life as well as instructing when he can.  Bill grew up liking racing as many people who grew up near Indianapolis did and eventually began driving himself when his work and family life allowed, proving again that it is never too late to start to enjoy performance driving and even racing.  He is a very relaxed and knowledgeable driver and Jennifer loved having him as an instructor.  We cover how the NASA Great Lake GingerMan HPDE classes went without being able to have in car instruction and offer several options that may be ways to improve the teaching methods without right seat instruction as an option due to COVID 19.  The event was awesome, but as with everything else, you can always improve, in everything.  You can follow him on Instagram at Bill Griffin.

Bill Griffin on Track
Bill Griffin on Track

On one of our simplest episodes of Dominating with Dawson we review crabbing or cheating into a corner.

We hope you enjoy the episode!

Best regards,

Bill, Vicki, Jennifer, and Alan

Hosts of the Garage Heroes In Training podcast and team members in the GHiT Immature Endurance Racing Team

Highlights from the episode include:

1)  We cover Bill’s progressions from newbie track driver and not terribly mechanical to a regular racing driver and instructor (who has been to the track 5 weeks straight and counting) (Very jealous)

2)  What is a competition (or race) license, as well as several methods and paths towards getting one.

3)  Bill seeks guidance to how to schedule a season of racing with the rest of our team.  Perhaps an appointment for hearing testing is in order.

4)  Bill also goes into a quick review of some of the exotic sports cars he gets to drive with Extreme Experience and their clients.  This is especially useful if you are taller, like Bill who is 6′ 4″.

5)  Bill (the other) also goes over the potential limits in size for a driver in a Mazda Miata MX-5.  We have seen one with a cage that fits the owner that was 6′ 8″ and swallowed Bill up quite easily.

6)  Bill even goes over why he chooses to remain instructing the HPDE 1 group of students.

7)  We cover how the NASA Great Lake GingerMan HPDE classes went without being able to have in car instructional and offer several options that may be ways to improve the teaching methods without right seat instruction as an option due to COVID 19.  The event was awesome, but as with everything else, you can always improve, in everything.

Bill Griffin with his pupils
Post HPDE Team Photo

8)  Suggestions included 1) potentially using in car radios to communicate to the students, 2) lead follow groups of only two students, 3) only using partial lead follow (allowing students to assume lead position and instructor to follow), 4) perhaps grouping the instructors and cars to match performance, 5) using better/more universally defined hand signals, 6) more use of different cones for initial track learning, 7)  perhaps adopting an unofficial “HPDE 1.5” level/group within the HPDE 1 population, 8) incorporating the use of in car video, 9) positioning instructors with notebooks around the track to view at significant turns or areas of the track to provide feedback to the classroom or debrief sessions, 10) potential pathways to getting increased options for right seat/in car instruction.

9)  The tricks and differences in being an instructor in a lead follow environment versus being in the right seat and the potential for lead follow groups to become longer groups, which can make some of the instruction into a bad game of telephone.

10)  Riding a bike vs walking the track during a track walk.

11)  Several tips for new to track or high performance drivers.

12)  Bill unprompted supports Bill with the prep required before coming to the track as well as using 2-3 max goals and a few comments for each track session, especially during an HPDE event.  Now if we could only get the Wilson sisters to agree, lol.

13)  How your first few HPDE events can feel like your brain is drinking from a fire hose and how to potentially reduce this effect (like following the ideas from #12 above)

14)  Bill F. tries to sneak in a Good, The Bad, and the Ugly segment on how Jennifer did during here HPDE event.  Bill G. is much too nice to comply, but we will keep trying.

15)  How driving in a lead follow instruction environment make lengthening your vision particularly difficult.

16)  Tips for everyone (and us) on their next HPDE event.  Ours will be at Pitt Race in late July with NASA Great Lakes.

17)  The importance of focusing on consistently hitting your track marks and letting the speed build naturally.  Because it will.

18)  How teaching and instructing has helped Bill’s racing and how Racing has helped him as an instructor.  Hopefully, it will help our Bill when he gets there, lol.

GHIT 0123: Bill Griffin NASA Racing Driver and Jennifer’s HPDE Instructor from GingerMan

GHIT 0122: NASA Great Lakes HPDE at GingerMan – Post HPDE Review

GHiT at the 2020 HPDE at GingerMan
GHiT at the 2020 HPDE at GingerMan

Jennifer, Vicki, and Bill check in to review how the recent HPDE at GingerMan went with NASA Great Lakes.  We are not in our usual location and are recording under a roof in a KOA near Traverse City Michigan so there may be a bit more background noise than normal but we wanted to record while everything was still very fresh, even though we were all pretty exhausted.

Post HPDE
Giddy after the HPDE this weekend at GingerMan

On this week’s Dominating with Dawson, we go into a discussion to clarify apexes and Ben’s approach and how the point of rotation can apply to your driving, including a discussion of Ken Hill s podcast and how we should approach this during he (at that point) upcoming HPDE at GingerMan.

Jen coming into turn 2 at GingerMan
Jen going into Turn 2

We hope you enjoy the episode!

Best regards,

Bill, Vicki, Jennifer, and Alan

Hosts of the Garage Heroes In Training podcast and team members in the GHiT Immature Endurance Racing Team

Highlights from the episode include:

1)  We compare the structure of this HPDE which focuses on drills and with the COVID 19 separation not allowing for in car instruction at this point.

2)  The advantages and disadvantages of a lead follow, especially if it was a group of three this became more of an issue.

3)  How quickly NASA Great Lakes is responding to the new rules and conditions on track in a rapidly evolving climate and imposed rules by each state and track.

4)  What aspects of racing Vicki and Jen learned at this HPDE and what skills they refined during the weekend.

5)  How HPDE track days allow for focusing on the correct and repeatable line vs our racing where we rarely use the line and handle traffic while driving both on and offline.

6)  The drills we used during the weekend, including running the track in reverse.

7)  How a great track walk with a very large group led to great discussion and options for approaching several sections of the track that even some national champion drivers learned more about racing options at GingerMan.

8)  Ways to practice on your daily drive to help improve your track driving.

9)  Apex everything!

10)  The comparative differences between the HPDE 2 and HPDE 1

11)  The skid pad – Winter driving event we had scheduled for earlier this year is again one of the negative highlights for our season

12)  Vicki and Jen both had issue with getting their vision farther down the track, especially in the lead follow used during their HPDE 1 group.

13)  Both Vicki and Jen both felt their speed progressively increased on the track throughout the weekend.  It really was almost as if we needed a 1.5 level for these COVID impacted events.

14)  In car video issues during the weekend impacted our results but we discuss what we think the video will show of our driving through the weekend.  We shall see once we download our videos later this week.

15)  There were some pretty spectacular cars at GingerMan this weekend and we could not help but pick a few of our favorites that came to mind in our racing hangover induced state.

16)  Bill tries to work through Jennifer’s acceleration issues during the weekend and hos hypothesis is that she isn’t fully revving

17)  Bill inserts his foot fully into his mouth.  He will likely be sleeping in the bathtub for the rest of the week.

18)  Vicki almost got arrested for stealing as one night by mistake.

19)  Somehow, Vicki and Jennifer were introduced to the term Camber during our track walk for the first time.  Not sure how we missed it up to this point but apparently we did.

20)   We also went through our thoughts on the track and several of our favorite and more difficult turns for each of us.

21)  Vicki’s favorite track of the weekend was NamregNig (GingerMan backwards)

22)  Bill tries to get out of the hole he dug with John Pagel.

A few hopefully helpful suggestions for NASA we think are:

1)  Groups of two students with each instructor max

2)  Group cars and instructors by style, i.e. low HP cars with low HP instructor cars etc.

3)  Perhaps a 1.5 level with less lead follow and more with the instructor in the position watching the student from behind.

GHIT 0122: NASA Great Lakes HPDE at GingerMan – Post HPDE Review

GHIT 0121: GingerMan HPDE with NASA Great Lakes – Our Goals Going In

Bill Going to GingerMan HPDE

Jennifer, Vicki, and Bill are going to be attending the NASA Great Lakes HPDE at GingerMan, a new track for our team.  This is a short episode where we cover our preparation for the HPDE and our goals and areas of focus going into the HPDE event.  In addition, we cover coasting on a race track (Hint:  Don’t) and how to avoid it in this episode’s Dominating with Dawson segment. 

We hope you enjoy the episode!

Best regards,

Bill, Vicki, Jennifer, and Alan

Hosts of the Garage Heroes In Training podcast

and team members in the GHiT

Immature Endurance Racing Team

GHIT 0121: GingerMan HPDE with NASA Great Lakes – Our Goals Going In

GHIT 0119: Eric Meyer – NASA Great Lakes Chief Instructor

  • Eric Meyer
  • Eric Meyer and Ross Bentley
Eric Meyer alone and with good friend and colleague Ross Bentley

Just in time for the upcoming NASA Great Lakes event at GingerMan, Chief Instructor Eric Meyer was kind enough to join us and discuss his past and current association with racing and instructing, as well as the genealogy and philosophy that has led to the current NASA Great Lakes HPDE program curriculum.  It is by far the best of the HPDE instruction we have attended across the country and we think highly enough of it that we regularly attend their HPDE events that are sometimes well over a 10 hour drive each way from us.  Eric also is another great counterexample of the false age-old adage about “those who can do, and those who can’t teach” as he has won a ton of racing trophies in Grand Am, World Challenge, and Touring cars, among others.  Our Dominating with Dawson segment goes over the practice of left foot braking, its potential advantages, and how to try to begin to incorporate it into your driving repertoire.

We hope you enjoy the episode and we would love to see you at the upcoming NASA Great Lakes event in GingerMan!

  • Eric Meyer in RX 8
Eric Meyer racing in two of his RX-8’s

Best regards,

Bill, Vicki, Jennifer, and Alan
Hosts of the Garage Heroes In Training podcast
and team members in the GHiT
Immature Endurance Racing Team

Highlights from the episode include:
1)  How he originally started racing at a track and how quickly and deeply the hook was set.
2)  Some of the issues that he encountered when first entering the sport and how they shaped his interest in helping others
3)  Where he sees opportunities to continue to improve our sport and how he can give back to the racing community.
4)  How NASA Great Lakes history has led to their focus on the educational path has led to the current HPDE structure.  It is a great balance of driving on the track with the classroom and download education.
5)  Eric turns the table on Bill to answer Bill’s own question.  It was tremendously fun and allowed Bill to brag about the NASA Great Lakes HPDE.
6)  A discussion on the priorities of teaching driving skills and situational awareness as foundational aspects of the NASA Great Lakes HPDE.
7)  We believe that we may have uncovered Eric is secretly competing in sewing.  We may be wrong.
8)  Eric also goes into some of the philosophy of what his team is looking for to progress through the levels as well as some of the criteria in transitioning from level one to level two, as an example.
9)  We discuss several of the drills that you will do within the various HPDE levels, some of which we have lovingly stolen and use on our track day practice sessions.
10)  We even go into some of the educational techniques former podcast guest John Santiago uses in the HPDE 1 classroom and track sessions.  Vicki and Jen will be getting the full experience next weekend.  Bill is jealous and will attend as many of their classroom sessions as his HPDE schedule permits.
11)  How has the COVID related challenges and rules impacted the event and the HPDE sessions specifically, especially the traditional right seat style in car coaching and the various group classroom sessions.  It sounds like things may be even better than the prior structure.
12)  One of the surprises we may see at GingerMan may have been revealed.
13)  Eric says that we need to add Mosport to the track bucket list and Bill is already pondering how to possibly get to the Chin event at Barber in November.
14)  Tips and tricks to the upcoming GingerMan event, both on track and off.  Jen is thrilled with the runoff areas GingerMan affords to assist with learning with less potential detrimental impact.
15)  We have an informal agreement to meet at the local microbrewery.  Now we just need to have time and energy.
16)  A Pinto makes a podcast appearance again, much to Vicki and Jen’s pleasure.
17)  We aren’t absolutely sure if Eric really liked our Fast and Furious questions but he really faked it well if he didn’t.
18)  Eric has a weakness, and apparently it is Mazda rotary engines.
19)  If you are ever at a bar and need to know how many kegs you can fit into a 1964 Oldsmobile Cutlass, this is the podcast for you!
20)  Bill forgets to thank Eric for an earlier long conversation they had related to Bill’s goal of becoming a qualified instructor as soon as possible.

GHIT 0119: Eric Meyer – NASA Great Lakes Chief Instructor